anyone have a flashlight by there home defense gun?

Discussion in 'General' started by dylanpowell, Aug 15, 2009.

  1. dylanpowell

    dylanpowell New Member

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    i keep i nitecore defender infinity R2 by my 1911. tell me what you keep by your gun if you have something.
     
  2. wwb

    wwb New Member

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    Nothin'.

    Just me and "the boss" and we live out in the country..... you come in here at 2:00 AM, I ain't gonna light you up - I'm gonna install a couple holes in you where there ain't supposed to be any holes.
     

  3. uglydog

    uglydog New Member

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    I keep a Surefire G2 on the nightstand by the bed, I hang a Streamlight TR-1 under the barrel of the XD-45 I keep along side of the G2. I have another light attached to a front sight Picatinny on my AR-15 and have another Streamlight attached to the barrel of the 870 I keep under the bed. My wife has a Brinkman brand G2 equivalent attached to the forestock of the M-1 carbine she keeps on her side of the bed.
    I am a firm believer in the use of lights in a defensive situation, the ability to light up the target increases the odds of a hit tremendously. After all, you can only shoot as accurately as you can see and a light at night allows you to see quite well. A light also lets you determine which shadow is the intruder much quicker than waiting for him to move and is less costly than just double tapping every shadow you pass. Ammo is just too hard to come by these days for this last tactic.
     
  4. SS

    SS New Member

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    Oh, 870's under my bed and my Mag-Lite 4d is about 10 feet away on my desk. I'd rather hit a room light than a flashlight.

    SS
     
  5. wwb

    wwb New Member

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    True, but if the bad guy is armed, and a good shot, you're marking yourself as a target - probably before you find him.

    40 years ago in Vietnam, I saved my own butt many times by targeting enemy muzzle flashes..... I'm still alive, and they aren't.
     
  6. uglydog

    uglydog New Member

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    The typical "defensive" light is a vastly different animal than the 2-4 "C" or "D" cell light many have is a drawer somewhere though even it is superior to waiting to be shot at so you can return fire at your opponent's muzzle flash. Odds are, if the NVA or VC were able to have seen you better, their hit percentage would have been higher as would have yours in return. During the day I would guess their shooting was better as they could then see both you and their sights better. That has been the case since time immemorial and will always be so.
    Those 4 cell lights were the best there was 30+ years ago and light technology has come a long ways since the Kelly (Kel) light came out in the mid-1970s. It also takes a little knowledge in the proper use of a light, one does not go around with it in the "on" position like Barney Fife as they stumble around the house. The light is used to illuminate suspicious objects and shadows in order to clear or engage them. Otherwise you are left to guessing as to whether it is a threat or not and you can then either shoot it and hope you have some drywall patch in the garage or leave it and hope it isn't the intruder you are hoping isn't in the house and they have no inclination to shoot, stab, or strike you in your poor decision. After all, they know that shadow in the corner is them and that the object coming through the doorway is definitely a threat. It is also no lie that a sufficiently bright and focused light can (not necessarily will) give you a split second of confusion if directed on another individual. I have used a light dozens of times in my almost 30 years of law enforcement, most of the time it has allowed me to put the suspect at a disadvantage with it being a wash the other times. If using a light was such a poor tactic, it would not be so pervasive in use by those frequently tasked with close quarters clearing such as police and the military in urban environments. Look at the news of soldiers in Iraq, , virtually every squad has some, if not all, members with some form of illuminating capability as well as virtually all having an optical sight in lieu of the irons you used four decades ago. Tactics and equipment change to better assist those in harm's way. In one perspective, 40 years ago is when the fathers of some of today's soldiers could have been born. I started my law enforcement career when a 4 "D" cell flashlight was still commonplace, I was one of the first to have a Kel-Light. Today, the proper use of lights has become such a valuable tactical advantage that even a patrol officer has more than one and entry personnel may have a half dozen.
     
  7. dylanpowell

    dylanpowell New Member

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    what do yall think the best every day carry light is?
     
  8. uglydog

    uglydog New Member

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    I always have on hand a Surefire Executive. It is pretty small as it uses a single 123 cell lithium battery. It has a pocket clip and a rear push button on/off switch. The only negatives are the cost of replacement batteries and that the light can be turned on if carried in the pants pocket. I have often carried around either a 2 AA cell Mini-mag or a little larger LED flashlight as in these the batteries tend to last longer than the lithium and they are much cheaper. Another benefit of the Mini-mag is that it can be used as a defensive device at close quarters. They can be used as a jabbing impact weapon as well as a means of enforcing compliance through pain, much like a Kubotan.
     
  9. WDBradley

    WDBradley New Member

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    I have a Streamlight with the quick connect I snap onto my S&W M&P 45 when I go to bed at night. I carry the pistol conseled when I leave my house and the light is an issue as I haven't found a decent holster that will accept it.
    I shoot left hand and the push on/off button for the light is easy to access. with my trigger finger. I like the light being attached to the pistol because while I shoot left handed most of the time (left eye dominate) I do most everything else right handed so it leaves my right hand is available to defend or do simple things (open doors, dial the phone, ect).
     
  10. RuffBuff

    RuffBuff New Member

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    I keep a relatively large Mag-lite (3 D-cells) in the drawer of the night stand. It features a "soft on/off switch" that one can press/release for instantaneous and intermittent on/off. Held in the left hand, with the wrist cocked and one of the two middle fingers operating the intermittent switch, the left hand/wrist serving as a rest for the pistol in the right, seems to allow for effective shooting in a darkened area. Clearly, shooting from behind cover in your chosen "safe room" of the house, or being able to move quickly to another location after turning the flashlight briefly on and off, is strictly encouraged if you know what I mean. Practice is also encouraged.

    This is the way I was trained, and the way I've trained others since then in the discipline of home/personal defense. There are many smaller, brighter options, I am quick to point out, but that 3-4 D-cell monster is hell for stout as a club, if needed, held as I've described. In my state at least, applying one of those liberally and vigorously, from the neck up on any assailant, is legally considered "Lethal Force". Ever had an opportunity to observe how a Highway Patrolman holds a flashlight as he approaches your car at night as he asks to see your driver's license and vehicle registration? There is a reason for that and it was the way he was trained. Look next time and notice the size of that light and how he holds it.

    I don't carry a light when carrying concealed outside the home unless I'm hunting raccoons. :wink: I'll take my chances without.

    Each to his own, I suppose.
     
  11. Paul F.

    Paul F. New Member

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    I'm with wwb on this. I will not light up my position. In my house, the bedroom end is very dark... but, the rooms down the hall all have low-lite night lights in them. I want to see them... not vice versa. :wink:
     
  12. 1gsplover

    1gsplover New Member

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    DITTO what Paul said. I also like the heavy dark all about my position with nightlights showing me whether I need to cuss the cat or shoot the intruder.
    Oh, yeah, I am also an antiquated old fart who sticks with my Maglite... for decades now.
    ///olde 8) pharte///
     
  13. uglydog

    uglydog New Member

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    Point the flashlight at what you want illuminated rather than yourself, then you will be lighting up the "target" rather than yourself. In 30 some years of law enforcement I have found the use of a good flashlight (not the 2 C or D cell lights commonly found in household drawers) to be a godsend in identifying objects in the dark. Those who believe a flashlight is a hinderance rather than a help have little knowledge in the tactical application of light. A very brief time spent in researching the use of light sources and a little serious role playing will pay off great dividends if actually called on for use.


    [quote="Paul F".]In my house, the bedroom end is very dark... but, the rooms down the hall all have low-lite night lights in them. I want to see them... not vice versa. :wink:[/quote]

    This is not a bad tactic to use bt it does little good and as much harm if you have to check out a noise. Not all bumps in the dark are a home invader and sometimes one has to check them out before the spouse will let you get back to sleep. Then a good flashlight is a much needed tool as well as a good weapon if properly chosen.
     
  14. WDBradley

    WDBradley New Member

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    Say what you will but even in your home a shadow after hearing a bump in the night is a threat. The only way to clear that threat is by lighting it up unless you have Ninja skills! I can walk my home in the dark with out bumping into stuff but if I'm clearing my home from a threat I will need to light up some shadows. No matter who says what, the light will give away my postion but if you are on the other end of that light you can't see much more that the bright light in your eyes and I have you fully lighted up. I'm not saying you should walk through your home with a light blazing. I am saying that you should be able to see any threats before you take another step, if you can't see then you should either light it up or retreat. Go into the darkness and you give the advantage to the bad guy or might shoot a family member who got up to get a glass of water. See and aquire a target before you pull the trigger, in the dark of night this will require a flash light. Mine is attached to my pistol and is activated by my trigger finger, that way I have to hit the light before I pull the trigger.
     
  15. RuffBuff

    RuffBuff New Member

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    WDB,

    Well said!
     
  16. WDBradley

    WDBradley New Member

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    Thanks Ruff, just being real with practical/tactical.
     
  17. UncleFudd

    UncleFudd New Member

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    I guess this is an old post but maybe still being read and or observed.
    I have a little different read on lights and their use but believe me I have em and practice with em (regularly) at home and at the range when possible. I just got the new surefire "Defender" and it is without doubt the finest and brightest little light I have ever had my hands on and it fits well with my handgun for actual use applications. It also can be used as a jabbing tool or kubaton and has the clip for belt carry.
    It will work extremely well for lighting up the area of search and it will also function as it should as a "blinding" tool which is very important in self defense. BTW, if you get some quality courses on the use of your tools in low light situations you will learn not to stand in one place while doing anything necessary to fight or egress the area. (move and shoot) or shoot and skoot.

    This is my personal idea of home invasion and only one more idea to consider. I think everyone knows the quirks and faults in their home. Noises the house makes while settling etc. It is when something other than that occurs we get excited and are having to take some action. What action is the question and where the differences in response begins and perhaps ends.

    I always wonder at those who believe they will awake at 2 AM to a crashing and breaking of glass etc, awake and alert and in a fighting mode. WTF is that! You are first and foremost going to be crapping your nightshirt and anything but organized or even beginning to approach thinking. I don't care who you are or how much training you have, you will have to have some time to adjust to even begin to think and that is "time" and time is not in your favor to begin with. It also amazes me when I read about those who think the BG is an addled fool instead of someone who has cased your house and you and has a very good idea of what he wants and how he is going to get it and you are in his way.
    Ask someone in law enforcement or do some studies on your own about those bad guys and you will find they are pretty damned good at what they do and killing or maiming you and everyone who gets in their way is meaningless to them. Not all of them are stupid, or incapable of thinking and planning their actions. If you check them out you will find that some are actually professional at what they do.

    To begin with, THEY have every advantage in this fight and you are "reacting" to everything that is happening until you get your wits about you. That takes time and time is distance and before you know it, they are in your face with whatever tools they brought to do the job. Any time you are reacting to anything the other guy has the advantage, right!

    Here is my plan and the one that my wife and I practice and have armed ourselves for in the event something of this nature occurs. First of all, I train a lot and I practice a lot so if necessary, I can shoot and usually very well with whatever weapon I have at hand. But will I even have the chance to shoot, if I have done my homework, no I will not. If I have planned my self defense in my home properly, I will never have to engage the bad guys.

    First, the dogs should warn me of an intruder. If so I am prepared to deal with them. But I keep thinking that if I encounter or face them, they also have the opportunity to shoot, NOT GOOD.
    Bullets are indiscriminate. So I hope to make it difficult to shoot or beat me or my wife.

    If and when someone ever penetrates my perimeter, I will slam the bedroom door, both of us as soon and quickly as possible take positions in the bedroom. We have the firearms, flashlights, pepper spray, dogs and phones with us. Once the door is closed she will if possible dial 911 and we wait for the cav. We have the house key available and can tell the officers where to find it in order to gain access. We will stay right where we are until we are cleared to come out safely.

    I cannot imagine looking for a fight in the dark or any other time if I can avoid it. For those who are looking for one, be very careful, you may find it and it will NOT be fun regardless of who the winner may be. Something to think about when contemplating a close quarter fight. Remember, you can shoot the heart out of the body an the person can continue to fight for fifteen to twenty seconds. You also might want to research how accurate police officers are with their firearms in close quarter combat. (24 out of 100 hits and only 4 or 5 of those will be fatal. Still want to go looking for the bad guy in your own home in the dark?


    Some of the finest instructors I have had the opportunity to train with in the past many years, (Clint Smith, Jeff Cooper, Maas Ayoob, Robbie Baarkman, Dennis Tueller and Louie Awerbach just to name a few will tell you repeatedly and often to "AVOID" the confrontation. Words of wisdom to live by actually. So every action that I take will be to get away from the bad guy as soon and as quickly as I can. Therefore, searching for or looking for a fight in the dark is just not a smart thing for me to do IMHO. You may be different, good luck.

    Train and prepare yourselves to shoot if you fail to harden your perimeters and someone gets through. Lights are great and wonderful tools, but to go (searching) for a bad guy even in your own home seems like a very bad idea and an almost positive way to get hurt no matter how good of a shot or how big your gun. If you find the bad guy and even if you get off a shot or two, you are very likely going to be injured or killed yourself. Bad Karma. I for one, will hide and make them come to me and if they do before the can arrives I will be fighting from a well defended and excellent defensive position and I will have backup.

    Stay safe.

    UF
     
  18. SnakeDriver

    SnakeDriver New Member

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    best advice that could be given in these circumstances
    as a defender of your home you are judged in a different
    light than as an agressormeven in your own home
    here in NC theft is not justifiable use of deadly force
    - i teach ccw and personal defense and
    this is my position - hard defensive position - call 911 - shoot
    as a last resort and with superior firepower - ie 12ga etc.
     
  19. glove

    glove New Member

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    Yes I do. You cant see it you cant shoot it.
    Dave
     
  20. Blamm-O

    Blamm-O New Member

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    Indeed. You gotta see what you're about to shoot. It might even give you a moment of advantage if the intruder is temporarily blinded by the bright light.

    I keep a 3D LED maglite and my sig next to my bed. Additionally, it comes in handy when used for every day stuff...not only home defense.
     

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